Ｔｈｅ Ｃｒｅａｔｉｖｅ Ｉｎｄｕｓｔｒｙ 創意產業

Y: Yang Rui， anchor of Dialogue， CCTV-9

D: Philip Dodd， former director of the Institute ofContemporary Arts in London， now chairman ofMade in China， an agency that aims to developcultural and educational projects between China andthe UK

Philip Dodd is an internationally recognizedexpert in the creative industries. He's beendescribed by the UK's Guardian as one of thecleverest analysts in the political and culturalchanges in his generation. Dodd helped shapethe government's campaign to re-brand theUK's image as cool Britannia. He has curatedmany exhibitions with star architects and artists.And he has started a club for 500 of London'screative businesses， a model that has beencopied around the world.

Philip Dodd is one of the first cultural expertsin Britain to recognize the emerging importanceof China. He brought the Institute ofContemporary Arts to Beijing and Shanghai andhosted major Chinese arts and culture events inLondon. He is now an adviser to Beijing'sChaoyang District government， which is trying tomake Chaoyang the creative center of the Capital.He was also the chief international adviser toShanghai as it staged a major new digital artsfestival in October， 2007.

Y: For most Chinese， the creative industry is a newthing. Can you explain that to us?

D: The creative industry will be the great industry inthe century，We all grew up in manufactureindustry with making cars and ships and airplanes.The centurywill be about making films， televisionprograms， fashion industry，computer games， andarchitecture. In other words， the creative industriesare ways of turning out creativity into an economicbenefit. Every country in the world now is committedto creative industries because creative industries areoften what I would call green industries-they do notpollute the earth like manufacture industry.

Y: How is it that the creative industry accounts foralmost 3% of Britain's GOP?

D: Because increasingly manufacture industry has goneelsewhere， to India， to China， and increasingly toVietnam. What's happened is like this: a Chinesefriend of mine comes to London， and she goes to abig department store. She takes a vase and looks atthe bottom， and it says， \"Made in China.\" But thetruth is， the value of that object is created by otherpeople. So if China wishes to develop and grow itseconomy it needs to move into those sectors where there's a great deal of money to be made.

Y: How do you look at China's development of creativeindustries， if there's any in your eyes?

D: China's creative industries in this century will bemany I was brought up wanting to be an American.My father was a coal miner and he dreamed to be inAmerica. My child now is learning Mandarin atschool， his favorite food is dim sum and he's seenthe latest films of Zhang Yimou. So for me， China'screative industries range from food because I thinkone of China's great creative industries is cuisine; Ithink the creative industries will include film， stories，and online gaming. I think the truth is that it'simpossible to point out one creative industrybecause China has so many，What it does not yethave is the capacity to turn those businesses intoglobal brands.

Y: How do you look at Chinese culture with regards toits past and present?

D: We now know that we need to produce a sustainableworld and China has a different relationship withnature from the West. The West wants to masternature， to control it. China does not wish to do that.I think China's understanding of nature will be avery important element of the economy of China. Sofor me， one of the most important things about Chinais its interest in historical legacy I think China hasan extraordinary history and has this contemporarylife. The complex issue for China is， can it turn itspast into a creative possibility? For example， I thinktourism can be a great industry in China. And touristscome to China not just to see the historical sites ofinterests but also the contemporary China. So I don'tthink China should choose between the past and thepresent. I think China， like Britain， needs to holdtogether the best of the past with the best of thepresent. And the terra-cotta warriors exhibition，which will open in London next week， are both animage of the past and an image of how the world isnow interested in China， because at the same timethe terra-cotta warriors open， the British Museum willalso have an exhibition of contemporary Chinese art.It will bring together the past and the present.

Y: Have you been to the famous Factory 798 the artzone in Beijing?

D: Yes， I've been there many times. I think it has forsome time been a very good image of the new creativeBeijing. It's an old derelict9 factory that artists， thegalleries， the bookshops， the restaurants had come inand taken over. Now is this the past or the present?This is an old 1950s building that has been left in ruin.It used to be a manufacturing place and has now beenremade into a creative plant. So this is a way ofbringing the past and the present together as an imageof the future for China. China is going throughchanges quite without parallel in the history ofhumanity. By that I mean people have been movedand moving into the cities in such a short period. InBritain it took much longer. China now is as importantto the 2rst century as Britain was to the igth orAmerica to the 2oth century The reason is that Chinais now like a great laboratory It is a way of trying tofind new ways of living.

Y: Some of the new buildings in Beijing have causedcontroversies， such as the new CCTV building， theNational Opera House， etc. What is yourinterpretation of these new architectures designedby international architects in a historical city likeBeijing?

D: One building does not make a city. And the danger ofBeijing at present is that it'll be a few great buildingswith nothing very interesting in between. But to me，what is interesting about the new CCTV is the signthat Beijing wishes to compete globally with the othercities in the world. And this is a very big change. Igrew up in the 6os when China seemed at least to meto have closed itself off from the world. China is nowvery open to the world， which produces problems butalso produces opportunity. So I want to come backand talk to you when the CCTV building is open， tosee if people feel fond towards it or whether they beginto love it.

Y: What do you think are the similarities between thecreative industries in China and in Britain?

D: I think in both countries it is the private sector thatis the most innovative， not the public sector. For thelast ten or fifteen years in Britain， the public sector，the state sector has had to run to keep up with theinnovation， the change in the private sector. And as Iwalk around the cities of Guangzhou， ShenzhenShanghai， Beijing， I feel that it is in the private sectorthat the innovation is most clear. And the second thingthat brings China and Britain together is the youngcare most about the environment. This seems to meextremely important. The notion of finding asustainable way of living is very important. And I thinkwe should try and find ways of building on that. Ibrought my eight-year-old son to China five years ago.And he stood in the street. There was a Chinese childwho did not speak English. My son did not speakChinese. But the Chinese child was playing a computergame， so my young boy went and leant over hisshoulder. And they started to play this computer gametogether. Now maybe I'm a sentimentalist， but myview is that the new technology is what increasinglybrings people together. And my view is that this younggeneration would think much more in terms ofcommunicating digitally...

Y: You seem to be very positive about the digital mediaof communications.

D: Yes. One of the most interesting things about thedigital media is that it is green media. It does notdestroy the planet， it does not use paper. So I thinkthe new media is potentially the most \"green\" culturethat the world has ever produced. But my view is thatnew forms of community are being set up on the net，which are to do with shared interests. And the pointis， can this new digital media transform the traditionalmedia and culture? My view is it can. I'm an adviser ofthe Shanghai's digital festival. The first event is adigital event that uses Chinese calligraphy\" andChinese opera. This is bringing the past and presenttogether again. So I do not wish to say you have tochoose between traditional culture and digital culture.I think digital culture will transform traditionalculture. If you go back to 1880s and you look at thebeginning of cinema， everybody said cinema would killreading. It did not kill reading. What happened is thecinema made use of books and transformed the placeof books in our culture.

Y: Beijing is to host the 2008 Olympic Games. What doyou think the world might want to see in our openingand closing ceremonies?

D: I'm a great admirer of Zhang Yimou's early films， Raisethe RedLantern，for examlple．I hope that the openingceremony wiIl find a way of doing three things．oneshOWing the best of the past of ChimR，the secondshowing the best of contemporary China--it would beagreatpit)riftheopeningal\"1dclosingceremonjesweresimpIy about the past of China，and I think the thirdthing it needs to do is to show China has been porous，in other words．Chian is interested in talking with therest of the WOrld．If Zhang Yimou，who is a greattheatrical figure，can do that，bringing the past，thepresent，and the openness of China，he WOUld havedone not only China but the world a great favor．

y: Sydney has made a great success in staging theopening and closing ceremonies of the Olympics，What do you think we can learn from other cities'success?

D: I think what can be learned is that you need to thinkabout your audience， because for me one of the thingsthat the West has learned is that what kind of artworkyou make is determined by your audience. SoShakespeare was writing for a particular audience. Sowhat I think was strong about the Sydney Olympicsis that it knew its audience was a global audience. AndI think it's extremely important that Zhang Yimou orwhoever is organizing the opening and closingceremonies remembers all the time that this is a veryglobal audience with lots of misunderstandings aboutChina， and lots of preconceptions about China. Andthere are certain ways Zhang Yimou needs to buildthose preconceptions into what he is doing andtransform them.

Y: What do you think are the major misunderstandingsabout China at this moment?

D: I think there are several that strike me as important.There's the simple notion that China is just a placeof pollution. This is not true. There are problemshere， but there are major innovations too. In fact oneof the British government's chief environmentaladvisers said that China was ahead of Britain in itsenvironmental policies. I do not know whether thisis true but he said so. Secondly for me， one of themost interesting things in China at present is thenumber of websites that showcase young people'screativity. So I hope the misunderstanding that thereis only one point of view in China will be challenged.There is a lot of opportunity for expressing your owncreativity now. And the third misunderstanding，which I think is very strong in the West at themoment， is the notion that China only cares aboutmoney There is a piece in the British newspaperbefore I left that says that China loves money， Thisis partly true， but not wholly true. And all thesemisunderstandings need to be challenged.

Y: What are the key elements of a creative industry?

D: The key element is that you need a good educationalsystem. You cannot have creative businesses unless youhave creative education. And I think some of thecleverest people in China understand that China'seducational system needs to change. The second thing，you need a thriving civil society， in other words， youneed the confidence to allow people to express anddevelop their own creativity fully The third thing， youneed to think of your market. China has an enormousnew market that has entertainment needs. And I thinkcreative people at their best always think of theiraudiences. Charles Dickens always thought of hisaudiences. It is crazy to think the true artist onlythinks of himself. There's this notion that commerceis the enemy of creativity Sometimes it's true， butsometimes it is not， as in the case of Shakespeare andDickens. The fourth thing that I think creativeindustries need is to see technology as a friend， not anenemy. There are too many people who thinktechnology is the enemy of creativity I think it iscreativity's best friend.