訪談

日文撰稿：松田亞希子

? Hiroshi Endo

田中 互 （左）

執(zhí)行董事

城市項(xiàng)目總部 城市設(shè)計(jì)部門 總裁

全球運(yùn)營(yíng)總部 海外開發(fā)項(xiàng)目管理部門·策劃公關(guān)部門總裁

龜井 忠夫 （中）

法人代表·社長(zhǎng)

陸 鐘驍 （右）

執(zhí)行董事

設(shè)計(jì)總部 總建筑師，全球運(yùn)營(yíng)總部中國(guó)區(qū) 總裁

不易流行

陸：“日建設(shè)計(jì)自成立至今已有119年。歷史如此悠久的建筑設(shè)計(jì)事務(wù)所放眼全球也實(shí)屬罕見，那么日建設(shè)計(jì)能夠長(zhǎng)久立足的原因是什么呢？”

龜井：“始終順應(yīng)時(shí)代要求這點(diǎn)應(yīng)該算是原因之一吧。從戰(zhàn)后重建到經(jīng)濟(jì)高速增長(zhǎng)期日建的業(yè)務(wù)主要集中在鋼鐵廠方面，之后開始涉足寫字樓和文化設(shè)施，泡沫經(jīng)濟(jì)崩潰后開始進(jìn)行大型開發(fā)項(xiàng)目。”

陸：“可以說我們的前輩具有洞察時(shí)代先機(jī)的能力。”

龜井：“現(xiàn)在說來就是具備創(chuàng)新精神吧。比如1966年竣工的巴樂思賽德大廈（Palaceside Building）采用了與地鐵站呈一體的設(shè)計(jì)，它不僅是寫字樓，還將一、二層做成了購物廣場(chǎng)，由于這些設(shè)計(jì)理念在當(dāng)年可謂前無古人，這也使它成為了綜合型建筑的先驅(qū)。如今看到這棟大廈還會(huì)感慨設(shè)計(jì)不應(yīng)止于建筑表面，還應(yīng)設(shè)計(jì)到它的內(nèi)在框架。”

田中：“1974年落成的新宿住友大廈，當(dāng)年建設(shè)時(shí)政府曾要求盡力確保更多的天空，于是保留了很多空無一物的空地。但之后隨著或在空地中栽種綠植、或做成營(yíng)造繁華的公共空間等呼聲的陸續(xù)出現(xiàn)，需求逐漸產(chǎn)生了變化，現(xiàn)在架設(shè)大屋頂進(jìn)行翻新等快速滿足時(shí)代變化和需求的空間建設(shè)和改造也正是日建設(shè)計(jì)的技之所長(zhǎng)。”

陸：“經(jīng)歷了泡沫經(jīng)濟(jì)和泡沫崩潰等大起大落的我們，是否能為世界提供一種可以承受時(shí)代和經(jīng)濟(jì)活動(dòng)變化的建筑建造方法呢？”

龜井：“在時(shí)代的洪流中，有些建筑消逝不見，也有些建筑倍受愛戴留存至今。巴樂思賽德大廈與新宿住友大廈順應(yīng)時(shí)代要求進(jìn)行了改造，時(shí)至今日不僅沒有過時(shí)都還在正常使用。不易流行，換句話說就是永不改變的本質(zhì)和與時(shí)俱進(jìn)不斷變化這兩點(diǎn)同樣重要。正因?yàn)槿缃褡兓牟粩嗉铀伲晕覀兿Ｍ谠O(shè)計(jì)時(shí)能夠牢牢把握住這兩點(diǎn)。”

全球價(jià)值

陸：“日建設(shè)計(jì)作為世界頂級(jí)建筑設(shè)計(jì)公司，應(yīng)該如何在全球市場(chǎng)中占據(jù)一席之地呢？”

龜井：“比起規(guī)模，我們更希望用內(nèi)在一決勝負(fù)。日建設(shè)計(jì)不僅有建筑師，還擁有工程師和規(guī)劃師等多樣化的人材，綜合實(shí)力是我們的強(qiáng)項(xiàng)。此外，我們還具備日本企業(yè)特有的細(xì)致周到。除了在硬件方面的努力外，如何增加附加服務(wù)應(yīng)該是今后的關(guān)鍵所在。”

田中：“在日本狹小的土地上蓋樓建城的我們，非常擅于將復(fù)雜的東西合理布局在一起，也就是說擅于‘緊湊整合’”。我想這一點(diǎn)恐怕是歐美系設(shè)計(jì)事務(wù)所很難模仿的。”

陸：“日本是世界上第一個(gè)進(jìn)入老齡化社會(huì)的國(guó)家，這點(diǎn)同樣非常重要。老齡化社會(huì)是世界的未來趨勢(shì)，能夠站在老齡化的最前沿提出城市建設(shè)解決方案是我們的一大優(yōu)勢(shì)。”

打破“框架”的束縛

陸：“IoT（物聯(lián)網(wǎng)）與AI（人工智能）的發(fā)展浪潮也波及到設(shè)計(jì)行業(yè)。日建對(duì)此有采取什么策略嗎？”

龜井：“日建設(shè)計(jì)在公司內(nèi)部已經(jīng)基本實(shí)現(xiàn)了技術(shù)完備。然而，要想在日趨復(fù)雜、多元化的社會(huì)中做出創(chuàng)新，與外界乃至其他行業(yè)的合作將成為關(guān)鍵。”

陸：“日建已經(jīng)與大型通信公司軟銀開展合作，正聯(lián)手進(jìn)行實(shí)證實(shí)驗(yàn)以打造利用大數(shù)據(jù)的下一代智能建筑。”

田中：“雖然建筑要建在當(dāng)?shù)兀O(shè)計(jì)和設(shè)計(jì)合作伙伴可以是來自其他行業(yè)的外國(guó)公司。我們的全球化征程必須更進(jìn)一步。”陸：“通過與各種外界公司的合作，還可能會(huì)孵化出打破設(shè)計(jì)業(yè)務(wù)框架的新型業(yè)務(wù)。像AMEBA那樣的開放式創(chuàng)新的時(shí)代即將來臨。”

足跡遍布世界

陸：“日建設(shè)計(jì)今后將越來越頻繁地亮相于世界舞臺(tái)，那么有哪些作品可以展示日建的優(yōu)勢(shì)呢？”

多媒體技術(shù)能夠?qū)⒔處熕v授的教學(xué)內(nèi)容更加直觀地展現(xiàn)在學(xué)生們的眼前，但是這種“方便”“直觀”的背后也隱藏著一些弊端。正是因?yàn)槎嗝襟w技術(shù)的直觀，使學(xué)生在學(xué)習(xí)過程中減少了對(duì)文章內(nèi)容的想象，影響了學(xué)生想象力的培養(yǎng)。另外，在運(yùn)用多媒體技術(shù)教學(xué)時(shí)，老師可以把應(yīng)用他人的感悟直觀地呈現(xiàn)到學(xué)生的面前，這種方法雖然能夠強(qiáng)化學(xué)生的理解能力，但是也在一定程度上影響了學(xué)生的思考。

田中：“新加坡鐵道走廊是在全長(zhǎng)24km的原馬來亞鐵路遺址上作為公共空間進(jìn)行重建的項(xiàng)目。我們提案在關(guān)注與周邊社區(qū)和環(huán)境的聯(lián)系的同時(shí)，打造出諸如可以運(yùn)動(dòng)的空間、可以散步的自然環(huán)境等許多富于變化的空間，再像串珠一樣將這些空間連接起來。我們組建了包括城市規(guī)劃、景觀、建筑等專業(yè)在內(nèi)的綜合性專業(yè)團(tuán)隊(duì)，該團(tuán)隊(duì)充分發(fā)揮了日建設(shè)計(jì)的綜合實(shí)力，我認(rèn)為這也是我們最終贏得國(guó)際設(shè)計(jì)競(jìng)賽的一個(gè)因素。”

龜井：“建筑方面，我想說一下巴塞羅那足球俱樂部主場(chǎng)—諾坎普球場(chǎng)的大型改造項(xiàng)目。在贏得設(shè)計(jì)競(jìng)賽的規(guī)劃案中，我們提案拆除過去的封閉圍墻，將3層看臺(tái)改造成開放式看臺(tái)，使其成為向巴塞羅那及其市民開放的公共空間。在發(fā)揮20世紀(jì)50年代的建筑價(jià)值的同時(shí)進(jìn)一步創(chuàng)造出新的價(jià)值，這種理念得到了肯定。”

陸：“拆除墻壁等結(jié)構(gòu)、在廣場(chǎng)上加蓋大屋頂，東京站八重洲口的GranRoof也是類似風(fēng)格。說到東京站，基于公共交通的城市開發(fā)—TOD的重要性也開始得到世界的認(rèn)可，兩位有什么要說的？”

田中：“日建設(shè)計(jì)在日本做過許多以車站為中心的城市開發(fā)項(xiàng)目。我們正是憑借這些豐富經(jīng)驗(yàn)，在中國(guó)和世界各地積極推進(jìn)TOD開發(fā)建設(shè)。”

龜井：“1997年與港未來站呈空間一體化的橫浜皇后廣場(chǎng)的開發(fā)，確實(shí)為港未來21地區(qū)帶來了大量的人流。”

陸：“橫浜皇后廣場(chǎng)，一出了地鐵站就直接進(jìn)入了大廈里的購物中心。雖然是20年多年前的項(xiàng)目，現(xiàn)今已成為在中國(guó)推廣TOD的重要啟示。車站與城市無縫連接融為一體，并通過在其間設(shè)置商業(yè)設(shè)施等來營(yíng)造繁華氛圍。如此一來，人們?cè)诔鲂袝r(shí)主動(dòng)選擇綠色出行，從而有助于建設(shè)環(huán)境友好型的城市。”

建筑對(duì)環(huán)境的貢獻(xiàn)

? NIKKEN SEKKEI

龜井：“1993年竣工的沙特阿拉伯伊斯蘭開發(fā)銀行總部大廈就是一個(gè)具有象征意義的項(xiàng)目。針對(duì)沙特嚴(yán)酷的氣候條件，通過采用石質(zhì)外墻遮擋灼熱陽光和采用細(xì)長(zhǎng)狹縫窗口引入所需最低限的光線以確保實(shí)現(xiàn)舒適性。在幾乎完全沒有環(huán)保建筑概念的當(dāng)時(shí)年，可以說是一個(gè)劃時(shí)代的項(xiàng)目。”

田中：“正在建設(shè)中的迪拜One Za'abeel，在兩棟高層建筑間架起具有節(jié)能功效的高科技玻璃廊橋。工程設(shè)計(jì)一體化的提案正是日建設(shè)計(jì)的優(yōu)勢(shì)所在。”

陸：“同時(shí)，在日本國(guó)內(nèi)，我們正在攜手住友林業(yè)挑戰(zhàn)建設(shè)高350m的木結(jié)構(gòu)超高層建筑，即W350規(guī)劃。”

龜井：“日本雖然約有2/3的國(guó)土面積被森林覆蓋，但由于未能充分利用木材，導(dǎo)致森林逐漸荒廢。木結(jié)構(gòu)建筑不僅能傳達(dá)木材的溫暖與溫柔，還有助于環(huán)保。”陸：“將來，我們希望可以向加拿大、俄羅斯等擁有大量森林資源的國(guó)家提供相關(guān)技術(shù)。”

關(guān)于EXPERIENCE、INTEGRATED的思考

陸：“最后還想請(qǐng)您談?wù)勅战ㄔO(shè)計(jì)新的企業(yè)發(fā)展旨

'EXPERIENCE、INTEGRATED'。”

龜井：“收集整合豐富的經(jīng)驗(yàn)并將其反映到項(xiàng)目中自不必說，更重要的是要通過超出客戶預(yù)期和具有優(yōu)勢(shì)的提案吸引并抓牢客戶，與此同時(shí)還要讓客戶感到安心，建立長(zhǎng)久的信賴關(guān)系。可以說，只有在做到這兩點(diǎn)才算實(shí)現(xiàn)了'EXPERIENCE和INTEGRATED' 。”

田中：“大家在進(jìn)行規(guī)劃設(shè)計(jì)時(shí)，往往會(huì)抱著如何去打造人群集聚的場(chǎng)所，如何來豐富城市這樣的思路。所以說公共空間與TOD的'EXPERIENCE和INTEGRATED' 是不輸于其他的。”

陸：“在考慮到客戶所在國(guó)家和地區(qū)未來的同時(shí)，充分利用日本這些年來積累的豐富經(jīng)驗(yàn)。作為擁有悠久歷史和豐富設(shè)計(jì)經(jīng)驗(yàn)的日建設(shè)計(jì)，我們希望積極推進(jìn)日建獨(dú)有的全球化戰(zhàn)略。”

龜井：“我們并不是要把日本的價(jià)值觀強(qiáng)加于其他國(guó)家和地區(qū)，而是要根據(jù)各個(gè)國(guó)家和地區(qū)的特點(diǎn)，因地制宜地打造海外項(xiàng)目。”

陸：“如果能夠結(jié)合當(dāng)?shù)氐那闆r，進(jìn)行適宜的提案，就可以從眾多方案中脫穎而出。力求做到‘這是最優(yōu)方案，只有日建設(shè)計(jì)能夠?qū)崿F(xiàn)’。”

龜井：“希望日建的 'EXPERIENCE、INTEGRATED' 精神，能夠不斷為解決世界性課題做出貢獻(xiàn)。”

? Vincent Hecht

- More than creative

Lu: "Since its inception 119 years ago, Nikken Sekkei now has a long history rarely seen in the global architectural design industry. In your opinion, what's the factor that supports Nikken Sekkei to develop until today? "

Kamei: "I think one of the reasons is that Nikken Sekkei has always kept up with the times. From the post-war reconstruction to the rapid economic growth period, Nikken Sekkei is mainly engaged in business of iron and steel plants, followed by office buildings and cultural facilities.After the collapse of bubble economy, Nikken Sekkei started to carry out business in large development projects."

Lu: "This also proves our predecessors' strong ability of gaining insight into the times."

Kamei: "Now we can say they have a spirit of innovation. For example,the Palaceside Building completed in 1966 adopted the design integrated with the subway station, in which it was not only used as the office building, but set shopping plazas on F1 and F2. These design concepts used for the first time globally at that time made it a pioneer of comprehensive buildings. Every time I see this building, it would remind me that, in addition to the surface, architectural design shall also focus on the internal framework of the building. "

Tanaka: "When constructing the Shinjuku Sumitomo Building (completed in 1974), in order to meet the government's requirement for ensuring more sky space, we reserved many empty spaces. However, with the emergence of calls for planting green plants in the open space or creating prosperous public space in succession, demands have changed.Now, with a wealth of expertise in space construction and renovation such as making renovation through erecting big roofs, Nikken Sekkei can rapidly meet the changing demands of the times."

Lu: "As an architectural firm surviving the impact of bubble economy and bubble collapse, what's your suggestion on the construction method that can withstand the changes of the times and economic activities?"

Kamei: "In the stream of times, some buildings have disappeared while some have gained wide popularity and lasted until today.Due to renovation in line with the demands of the times, Palaceside Building and Shinjuku Sumitomo Building are still in normal use and popular today. More than creative means we should stick to our original mission and continuously adapt to the times. These two points are particularly important for design in the background of everaccelerating changes today. "

-Global value

Lu: "As the world's top tier architectural design firm, how can Nikken Sekkei maintain its presence in the global market?"

Kamei: "We hope to enhance our competitiveness through inherent development instead of scale expansion. Nikken Sekkei has strong comprehensive strength, evidenced by its diverse talent team of architects, engineers, planners, etc. Moreover, like other Japanese enterprises, we also provide careful and considerate services. In the future, we will focus on exploring how to add additional services while continuing our efforts in hardware."

Tanaka: "As a firm constructing buildings on Japan's small land area,we are adept at integrating complex things through rational layout,i.e, compactness and integration". I think this is one of our advantages surpassing the European and American design firms."

Lu: "It's noteworthy that Japan is the first country in the world to enter an aging society. As aging society is the world's future trend, we have a great advantage in proposing urban construction solutions at the forefront of aging."

- Breaking through the constraint of "framework"

Lu: "The tide of IoT and AI also influences the design industry. What's your response strategy for this? "

Kamei: "Nikken Sekkei has established complete technologies within the company. However, the key to making innovation in the increasingly complex and diverse society lies in cooperation with the outside world and other industries."

Lu: "Nikken Sekkei has cooperated with SoftBank, a large communications company and they are working together on empirical experiments to build the next-generation smart buildings with big data."Tanaka: "In the construction of local buildings, we can utilize the design of foreign companies from other industries or cooperated with them in design. This is also a step taken to advance our globalization progress."

Lu: "The cooperating with companies in other industries will also benefit the incubation of new-type business that breaks the design business framework. The era of open innovation like AMEBA is coming."

- Footprints across the world

Lu: "In the future, Nikken Sekkei will showcase itself to the whole world in a more frequent gesture. Which works can demonstrate your advantages?"

Tanaka: "The Singapore Rail Corridor is a redevelopment project of public space based on the site of the original 24km-long Melayu railway. While taking the connection with surrounding communities and environments into consideration, we also proposed to create diverse and changeful spaces such as sports space and natural walking environment, and connect these spaces together like a string of beads. The comprehensive professional team we established has integrated urban planning,landscape, architecture and other specialties, and fully exerted Nikken Sekkei's comprehensive strength. I think this is also a factor contributing to our winning in the international design competition."

Kamei: "In terms of buildings, I would like to mention the large-scale renovation project of the stadium of Futbol Club Barcelona - Camp Nou. In our winning scheme in the design competition, we proposed to dismantle the original closed walls and renovate the three-level spectators stand into open stand, so as to build it into Barcelona's public space for citizens. This concept has created a new value on the basis of exerting the value of buildings in the 1950s, and won recognition from judges."

Lu: "The GranRoof at Tokyo Chuou-ku Yaesu also refers to the style of dismantling walls and other structures and erecting big roofs in the square. Speaking of Tokyo Station, the transit-oriented development(TOD) is drawing more and more attention from the globe. How do you think about this?"

Tanaka: "Nikken Sekkei has participated in many station-centered urban development projects in Japan and accumulated rich experience in this regard. It is now actively promoting the TOD development and construction in China and around the world."

Kamei: "The development of Queen's Square Yokohama featuring spatial integration with Minatomirai Station in 1997 has brought a large number of people flows to Minato Mirai 21."

Lu: "At Queen's Square Yokohama, you can directly enter the shopping mall in the building after leaving the subway station. Although it's a project more than 20 years ago, it has provided important enlightenment for promoting TOD in China. The project seamlessly integrates the station and the city and sets commercial facilities to create a bustling atmosphere. By doing so, people will actively choose green transportation modes when going out, thus facilitating the construction of the environment-friendly city."

- Environmental benefits of the buildings

Lu: "Nikken Sekkei also participated in many challenging projects in the Middle East, where the social system and natural environment are quite different from Japan."

Kamei: "The headquarter building of Islamic Development Bank in Saudi Arabia (completed in 1993) is a representative project. To address challenges brought by harsh weather conditions in Saudi Arabia and ensure comfort, we adopted the stone walls to block the scorching sunshine and the windows with slender narrow seams to introduce the minimum light required. At the time almost without the concept of environmentally friendly buildings, it was an epoch-making initiative."

Tanaka: "One Za' abeel in Dubai under construction sets a high-tech glass bridge with energy-saving functions between two high-rise buildings.Our advantage lies in the proposal highlighting project and design integration."

Lu: "Moreover, we are working with Sumitomo Forestry to build a 350m super high-rise building with the wood structure, i.e, the W350 Plan,which is a challenge for both of us."

Kamei: "In Japan, two-thirds of land area is covered by forests. However,due to the failure in full use of wood, the forests are gradually being obsoleted. The wooden structures can not only convey the wood's warmth and gentleness, but also contribute to environmental protection."Lu: "In the future, we hope to provide relevant technologies to countries with abundant forest resources, such as Canada and Russia."

- Thought on EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED

Lu: "At last, I would like to invite you to talk about your new corporate development purpose: 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED'."

Kamei: "We all know that it's important to collect rich experience and reflect it into the project after integration. However, what's more important is to attract and maintain customers through developing proposals beyond expectation and with advantages. Besides, it's necessary to enhance our customers' sense of sense of security through establishing reliable relationships in the long term. Only by achieving the above two points, can the purpose of 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED' be realized."

Tanaka: "When making plans and design, we tend to focus more on how to build a place gathering people and enriching the city. So the purpose of 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED' highlighting both TOD and public space will help us win over rivals. "

Lu: "While taking the future of the countries and regions where our customers belong into account, we will also make full use of the rich experience we have accumulated in Japan over the years. Boasting a long development history and rich design experience, Nikken Sekkei is actively engaged in promoting our unique globalization strategy."

Kamei: "Instead of imposing Japanese values on other countries and regions, we would like to fully consider the characteristics of various countries and regions, and develop overseas projects based on actual conditions."

Lu: "The proposals suitable to local conditions will stand out from others.We aim to realize that 'Nikken Sekkei is your most ideal choice for providing the optimal proposal'."

Kamei: "It's hoped that Nikken Sekkei's 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED'spirit will continuously contribute to solving the problems facing the whole world."

? Vincent Hecht