Joёl Bellassen: I’ve Never Considered It Difficult to Learn Chinese

By He Jun, Xie Xiaoqin & Shang Dan

“Please bear with me for anything amiss.” On May 19, 69-year-old Joёl Bellassen arrived at Wuhan University of Technology to participate in the “International Symposium on the Diversified Study of Language Policy in France.” With his humble attitude and standard spoken Chinese, he won himself the warmest applause from the first minute of his speech.

In France, Joёl Bellassen is synonymous with “Chinese language.” In 1969, he started learning Chinese in the University of Paris VIII. Before he graduated, cultural exchanges between China and France resumed, which sent him to China in 1973 as one of the first French students studying in China. Over the past 40 years, he has been working on the promotion, research and teaching of the Chinese language in France. From 2006 to 2016, he held the role of the first Inspector-General of Chinese Language Teaching at the French Ministry of Education.

白樂桑：我從不認(rèn)為漢語難學(xué)

文/賀俊 謝小琴 商丹

A Key to Chinese Speech and Writing edited by Joёl Bellassen白樂桑主編《漢語語言文字啟蒙》

“不足之處，請(qǐng)大家多多包涵。”5月19日，年近七旬的白樂桑來到武漢理工大學(xué)，參加該校主辦的“法國語言政策多元研究國際學(xué)術(shù)研討會(huì)”，謙遜的態(tài)度和一口標(biāo)準(zhǔn)普通話，一開場就贏得了掌聲。

白樂桑在法國幾乎是“漢語”的代名詞。1969年，他進(jìn)入巴黎第八大學(xué)攻讀漢語。畢業(yè)前，恰逢中法恢復(fù)文化交流，1973年來華留學(xué)，成為首批前往中國的法國留學(xué)生之一。此后40余年里，他一直致力于漢語推廣、研究與教學(xué)工作，2006年至2016年，任法國國民教育部首任漢語總督學(xué)。

在與我們的對(duì)話中，白樂桑道出了他的漢語學(xué)習(xí)理念，并對(duì)語言學(xué)習(xí)中的種種偏見提出了自己的見解。

曾借鑒中國的語文教學(xué)

記者：您被稱為法國說漢語最棒的人，為什么會(huì)選擇學(xué)習(xí)漢語？

白樂桑：這是我被問得最多的問題，現(xiàn)在還有人問。我當(dāng)時(shí)學(xué)漢語，是因?yàn)閯e人不學(xué)，并沒有功利的目標(biāo)。20世紀(jì)70年代，在距離中國遙遠(yuǎn)的法國和歐洲其他地方，人們很難看到漢語能給一個(gè)人帶來就業(yè)機(jī)會(huì)。學(xué)漢語應(yīng)該與我的個(gè)人性格特征相關(guān)，一是我傾向于溝通；二是我更傾向于遠(yuǎn)距離的東西，比如遠(yuǎn)距離的語言與文化；還有就是我一直對(duì)外語很感興趣。

記者：您是中法文化教育合作的推動(dòng)者和見證者，也是法國教育部任命的首任漢語總督學(xué)，漢語學(xué)習(xí)如今在法國是什么情況？

白樂桑：漢語課堂在法國本土的所有學(xué)區(qū)都有。目前，法國約有700所初高中開設(shè)正規(guī)漢語課，有超過11萬人在學(xué)習(xí)漢語。這11萬人中，差不多有一半在基礎(chǔ)教育階段，這些學(xué)校把漢語作為正規(guī)的外語，不是興趣班，也不是業(yè)余愛好；法國很早就把漢語作為正規(guī)科目，全世界第一個(gè)出臺(tái)了綱領(lǐng)性文件，制定了漢語教學(xué)大綱和考試大綱。30年前，如果你跟學(xué)生家長說學(xué)漢語，他會(huì)說，開什么玩笑，現(xiàn)在他們會(huì)說，可以考慮。

During our interview, Joёl Bellassen shared his ideas of Chinese learning and cleared up some stereotypes in the course.

We Borrowed Experiences from Language Teaching in China

—You are considered the best French Chinese speaker in France. Why did you choose to learn Chinese?

I get this question a lot; people are still asking me this. I learned Chinese back then because no one else did. I didn’t do it for an immediate utilitarian purpose. In the 1970s, France and Europe were so far away from China that people couldn’t see any employment opportunities brought about by learning Chinese. I guess it has something to do with my personality. On one hand, I’m good at communicating with others. On the other, I fancy things far away from me, such as language and culture from a remote country. I’ve always had a lot of interest in foreign languages.

—You are the promoter and witness of Sino-French cultural and educational cooperation. You were also the first Inspector-General of Chinese Language Teaching appointed by the French Ministry of Education. Can you tell us what it is like learning Chinese in France these days?

Chinese classes are available in all school districts in France. At present, there are about 700 junior and high schools in France offering regular Chinese classes, and more than 110,000 people learning Chinese, among whom half are in their primary education. These schools have Chinese as a formal foreign language class, rather than just an extracurricular activity. France long ago set Chinese as a formal subject and introduced the first programmatic document in the world, as well as the syllabus for Chinese teaching and examination. Thirty years ago, if you talked about learning Chinese with parents, they would say, “you must be kidding,” but nowadays they’ll certainly consider it.

—Would you like to tell us more about your work in formulating and revising the syllabus for Chinese learning and examination in France?

Chinese is a formal subject under the foreign languages discipline in the primary education of France. When I was editing the syllabus, I referred to experiences gained in teaching other foreign languages in France, and expanded on the overall structure and corresponding philosophy. For example, I regard Chinese culinary culture and overseas Chinese culture in France as important cultural points, so I tried to help French people learn and understand Chinese language in these fields.

I have also referred to the syllabus for Chinese teaching and examination in China, and was inspired in terms of the tradition and history. For example, I was inspired by the thousandcharacter text, whose author was a genius in my opinion, since he realized that putting characters together helps with the learning process, and came up with a wonderful method by putting as many Chinese characters as possible in the shortest possible paragraph.

記者：請(qǐng)講講您對(duì)全法漢語教學(xué)大綱和考試大綱的制定與修改。

白樂桑：漢語在法國的基礎(chǔ)教育中是一個(gè)科目，總學(xué)科叫外語。編寫大綱時(shí)，我參考的是別的外語在法國是怎么做的，再根據(jù)總體的架構(gòu)和理念來展開。比如，我把中國飲食文化、法國華僑文化等作為其中重要的文化點(diǎn)之一，幫助法國人學(xué)習(xí)和了解漢語。

我看過中國的語文教學(xué)和考試大綱，在傳統(tǒng)和歷史等方面受了一些啟發(fā)，也做了一些嘗試。像千字文就給了我一些啟發(fā)，這位作者想到了一個(gè)妙法，在盡可能短的篇幅里放盡可能多的漢字，我覺得他是一個(gè)天才，意識(shí)到了字的集中有助于漢語學(xué)習(xí)。

從不認(rèn)為漢語難學(xué)

記者：您覺得我們中國人在外語學(xué)習(xí)方面需要注意什么？

白樂桑：很多認(rèn)識(shí)誤區(qū)需要破解。我覺得一個(gè)比較流行的偏見是英語，大部分中國人把語言和文字混淆了，比如我受過高等教育，學(xué)過英語，也能簡單讀讀學(xué)術(shù)性文章，但我聽不懂美國電影，這算會(huì)英語嗎？

類似的誤區(qū)還有西餐，西餐其實(shí)是不存在的。比如你跟一個(gè)法國人說你在吃西餐，他聽不明白，這明明是法餐的里昂菜系或東南菜系。如果你說都是西餐嘛，大同小異。他會(huì)發(fā)火：“我們跟英國人哪有共性？”沒法定義西餐，但90%的中國人堅(jiān)信有西餐，這必須糾正，因?yàn)椴焕谥袊嗄炅私鈬狻?/p>

記者：不少人覺得漢語難學(xué)，網(wǎng)上也經(jīng)常會(huì)有一些題目說“連中國人都被考懵了”，您覺得呢？

白樂桑：“漢語難學(xué)”也是一種誤區(qū)。我走近漢語快半個(gè)世紀(jì)了，教學(xué)生有四十幾年了，我從不認(rèn)為漢語難學(xué)，也沒說過漢語好學(xué)。每個(gè)科目都有難處，我沒遇到過好學(xué)的外語。如果你說漢語有獨(dú)特之處，掌握起來比任何其他文字時(shí)間長，我完全能接受。但說漢語難學(xué)，好像等于說其他科目好學(xué)。所以，不必要突出“漢語難學(xué)”。

現(xiàn)代化與保持傳統(tǒng)不沖突

記者：現(xiàn)在中國的一些教學(xué)改革，突出語文閱讀和深入理解的重要性。您怎么看？

白樂桑：加強(qiáng)閱讀當(dāng)然是好事，但是現(xiàn)在很多青年讀的都是片段，比如短信，比如一分鐘小說等，這會(huì)產(chǎn)生思維能力的不足。培養(yǎng)思維很重要的一點(diǎn)就是讀全文，我的孫子現(xiàn)在七八歲，已經(jīng)開始讀大仲馬的小說全文。

記者：您說過很懷念四五十年前的北京，那么，保持傳統(tǒng)和現(xiàn)代化有沖突嗎？

白樂桑：現(xiàn)在絕大部分中國城市，如果沒有漢字，你不知道是在中國。如果你去法國，去意大利等現(xiàn)代化國家，很多地方的歷史感和

I’ve Never Considered It Difficult to Learn Chinese

—What do you think Chinese people need to pay attention to in their foreign language learning?

There are many common misunderstandings among Chinese people, one of which is with English. The fact is, most Chinese people confuse spoken language with written language. For example, I received a higher education myself and learned English, so I can read simple academic articles, yet I can’t understand American movies—does that count as knowing English?

And then there is this misunderstanding about “Western food,” which does not exist. For example, if you tell a French person that you are having western food, they would be confused, because to him that is obviously Lyon cuisine or the southeastern cuisine in France. Now if you say that they are all Western food, similar to one another, the French guy would be angry: “We have nothing in common with the British? OK?” So there is no such definition as Western food, but 90% of Chinese people believe in the concept of Western food, which should be clarified, since it does not help Chinese youth understand foreign countries.

—Many people find it very difficult to learn Chinese. There are some test questions even many Chinese netizens consider too hard for them to work out. What do you say about that?

People say that Chinese is very difficult, but that is a misunderstanding as well. I have been working with the Chinese language for almost half a century, being a teacher for forty years, and I never considered Chinese difficult. Neither would I say that it’s easy. Every subject has its own difficulties, and I have never known a foreign language that is easy. If you say Chinese is unique in its own way and it takes longer to master it than other languages, I can accept that. When you say it is difficult to learn Chinese, it sounds like you mean it’s easy to learn other subjects. Therefore, it is just not necessary to emphasize the difficulty of Chinese.

Modernization Goes Hand in Hand with Tradition

—Nowadays we have pedagogic reforms in China highlighting the importance of reading and in-depth comprehension. What do you think of it?

Strengthening reading is of course a good thing, but nowadays what most young people read is fragmental, such as text messages, or one-minute novels, which will lead to a lack of in-depth thinking. Reading the full text is very crucial for cultivating one’s ability to think. My grandson is no more than eight years old and is already reading full books by Alexandre Dumas.

—You said that you miss the Beijing forty or fifty years ago. So, is there a conflict between tradition and modernization?

When I travel to many cities in China, I wouldn’t feel like I was in China if not for the Chinese characters I see. Yet if you go to some modern countries like France or Italy, you’ll find the touch of history and the characteristics of every place, since they are well protected and distinctive. Modernization does not necessarily conflict with the protection of traditions. We surely greet fast development, meanwhile we should also try to protect historic things.—What do you like about China? Do you have any living habits related to Chinese culture?

I like Chinese characters, square dancing, Chinese courtyards (Siheyuan), tai chi, morning exercise, Chinese chess, and the like, because they are special. I often wear Chinese traditional clothes. Interestingly Chinese people do not wear them. I think there is no such thing as advanced clothes or backward clothes.

(Translation: Lu Qiongyao)特色都保護(hù)得很好，不會(huì)讓你錯(cuò)認(rèn)。現(xiàn)代化和保持傳統(tǒng)并不沖突，盡可能地保護(hù)有獨(dú)特風(fēng)格的東西，發(fā)展快也是可以接受的。

記者：您喜歡中國的什么，有沒有保持一些中國特色的生活習(xí)慣？

白樂桑：我喜歡中國的漢字、廣場舞、四合院、太極拳、晨練、圍棋等，因?yàn)橛刑厣Ｎ医?jīng)常穿中式衣服，奇怪的是中國人反而不怎么穿。我覺得服裝沒有落后與先進(jìn)之分。