鄉村音樂小天后的蛻變

2006年，17歲的泰勒·斯威夫特（Taylor Swift）出道之時，就憑借清新的鄰家女孩形象、淳樸的鄉村音樂曲風征服了無數青少年，首張唱片便獲得美國唱片業協會5倍白金唱片認證，成為名副其實的小天后。2014年，25歲的斯威夫特發行了第5張個人專輯《1989》，僅僅一周的時間便獲得白金銷量，魅力依舊不減。8年間，斯威夫特在不斷成長，《1989》從她拿手的鄉村音樂轉型為流行音樂，不僅如此，昔日的淳樸女孩也愈加成熟，她希望透過自己的歌曲，讓喜愛她的和質疑她的人們都能重新認識她。

Melissa Block （Host）： Her new album， released Monday， is on track to eclipse 1 million sales in its first week. The last artist to go platinum in a week in the past two years—that was Taylor Swift. （Soundbite of song， “Shake It Off”） Her new album is titled “1989.”Thats the year Taylor Swift was born， which means shes not quite 25 years old. And she joins me from New York， where she moved this year. Taylor， welcome to the program.

Taylor Swift： Hey.

Block： I enlisted some expert outside counsel for this interview， my 12-year-old daughter. And I want to start with a question from her.

Swift： Thats amazing.

Block： Heres her question—in your hit song “Shake It Off，”why did you address the song to your haters and not your motivators？

Swift： I think that with the song “Shake It Off，” I really wanted to take back the narrative and sort of have more of a sense of humor about people who kind of get under my skin and not let them get under my skin. This is an issue that I wrote about before. I had an album…

Block： With the song “Mean，” yeah？

Swift： Yes. Wow， OK， so I dont even have to tell you that. But theres a song that I wrote a couple years ago called“Mean，” where I addressed the same issue， but I addressed it very differently. I said， why you got to be so mean？ Like， and addressed—like， it from a kind of a victimized perspective， which is how we all approach bullying or gossip when it happens to us for the first time. But in the last few years， Ive gotten better at just kind of laughing off things that absolutely have no bearing on my real life.

Block： Well， heres a related question about the same song from a seventh grader. Shes thinking about the lyrics. And she says that sounds a lot like middle school. Do you have anything that you can tell a middle-school girl to help shake it off？

Swift： Shes exactly right. When I was in middle school， I had this fantasy that when we were in school， we had to deal with bullying and kids picking on you for no reason or picking on youcause youre different. And I thought that when you grow up， that its not like that anymore. （Soundbite of song， “Shake It Off”） So I guess what I try to encourage girls who are in middle school to do is to figure out a way to distract yourself from that negativity. Figure out what kind of art you love to create or your favorite hobby or something to throw all of your energy into， and realize that youre gonna have to learn how to cope with this at some point because its never going to end necessarily. Block： You know， Ive been thinking about this a lot because I am the mother of a 12-year-old girl. And she loves your music. Her friends love your music. You have a huge platform among a very vulnerable， impressionable set of the population. And I wonder if you think about turning your lens outward， turning it away from the diary page and sending a broader message to girls who would be really receptive to hearing about big ideas and the big world thats outside？

Swift： Like， what kind of messages？

Block： Well， other characters. I mean， I dont mean to minimize the effect of a love song or a pop song， but do you ever think about writing in the voice of other characters， other experiences， things that might turn girls away from themselves in a different way？

Swift： Theres nothing thats gonna turn girls away from themselves at age 12. I think that I have brought feminism up in every single interview Ive done， because I think its important that a girl whos 12 years old understands what that means.

And in talking to so many girls that age， we are dealing with a huge self-esteem crisis. These girls are able to scroll down pictures of the highlight reels of other peoples lives and theyre stuck with the behindthe-scenes of their own lives. Its so easy and readily available to compare yourself to others and to feel like you lose and youre not as cool. I just try to tell girls that this is what my life looks like. I love my life. Ive never， ever felt edgy， cool or sexy—not one time. And that its not important for them to be those things—its important for them to be imaginative， intelligent， hardworking， strong， smart， charming. I think that there are bigger themes I can be explaining to them and I think Im trying as hard as I possibly can to do that.

Block： You mentioned earlier that you try to talk about feminism. What does feminism mean to you？

Swift： I mean， by my basic definition， it means that you hope for the equal rights and opportunities for men and women.

Block： And how does that play out in the music world that youre a part of？ I mean， do you feel like thats not an issue for you anymore？

Swift： Its completely an issue. Its an issue every day that I read a headline that says “careful guys， shell write a song about you.” Meanwhile， I have， you know， best friends who are male musicians and songwriters who write songs about their girlfriends， their ex-girlfriends and that joke is never made about them.

梅麗莎·布洛克（主持人）：她周一發行的新專輯，有望在首周突破百萬銷量。（譯者注：新專輯于2014年10月27日發行。）近兩年在一周內唱片達到白金銷量的最新一位藝人，她就是泰勒·斯威夫特。（歌曲《擺脫它》片段）她的新專輯名為《1989》，那是泰勒·斯威夫特出生的年份，這意味著她將近25歲了。她在紐約參與我們的節目，她今年搬到了紐約。泰勒，歡迎到節目中來。

泰勒·斯威夫特：你好。

布洛克：為了這次采訪，我請教了一些外部專業顧問，我12歲的女兒就是其中之一。我想先問她的問題吧。

斯威夫特：好極了。

布洛克：她的問題是——在你的熱門歌曲《擺脫它》中，為什么你稱這首歌是獻給討厭你的人而不是鼓勵你的人？

斯威夫特：我想，在《擺脫它》這首歌里，我真的不想用敘述的方式，而是有點像加入了更多幽默的元素去寫那些使我生氣的人，讓他們不再惹惱我。這個問題以前我也寫過，我有張專輯……

布洛克：叫作《卑鄙》的歌曲，是吧？

斯威夫特：是的。哇，好的，所以我甚至不必告訴你這些。但是幾年前我寫了一首歌叫作《卑鄙》，說的也是同樣的問題，現在我卻會用非常不同的方式來處理。我以前說，你為什么那么卑鄙？像是在說——像是一種類似受害者的語氣，這是我們所有人第一次受到欺負或面對流言時都會有的表現。但是在過去幾年里，我能更好地處理了，對那些毫不影響我現實生活的事情，我會一笑置之。

布洛克：嗯，還有一個七年級學生的問題與這首歌有關。她在思考歌詞，她說聽起來非常像是描寫中學生活。你有什么想對中學女生說的，來幫助她們甩掉壞情緒？

斯威夫特：她說得很對。當我讀中學時，我也這么幻想，上學時要遭受欺負（Soundbite of song， “Out of the Woods”）和其他孩子的招惹，無緣無故，或者是因為你與他們不同。我想，當你長大了，就不再像那樣了。（歌曲《擺脫它》片段）所以我覺得，我想要鼓勵中學女生的是找到一個方法把注意力從那些消極影響中分散開。找到你喜歡去創造的某種藝術、最喜歡的愛好或是你愿意將所有精力投入其中的某件事物，并且明白你將會在某一段時間必須學會如何面對這個問題，因為它不會自然終止。

布洛克：你知道的，我一直在思考這個問題，因為我是一個12歲女孩的母親。她喜愛你的音樂，她的朋友喜愛你的音樂。你在一群脆弱的、易受影響的群體里頗具人氣。我在想，你有沒有想過擴展你的眼界，少說一些日常瑣事，給女孩們提供更多的信息？她們真的樂于聽聽不錯的想法以及外面廣闊世界的故事。斯威夫特：比如，什么樣的信息呢？

布洛克：嗯，其他類型。我是說，我并不是低估愛情歌曲和流行歌曲的影響，但是你有沒有想過寫出不一樣的歌，把其他類型、其他經歷、可能使女孩們討厭自己的東西用歌聲表達出來？

斯威夫特：沒有什么會使12歲的女孩討厭自己。我覺得，我在每一次個人采訪時都提到女權主義，是因為我覺得讓一個12歲的女孩明白這意味著什么很重要。

在和那么多這般年紀的女孩聊天時，我們要處理一個很大的自尊問題。這些女孩可以瀏覽到他人光鮮生活的照片，自己的現實生活卻處處受阻。這很容易地、明擺著地將自己與他人作比較，感覺到自己是個失敗者，沒有那么酷。我只是想要告訴女孩們，這是我生活的原貌。我愛我的生活，我絕不、從未覺得自己尖銳、時髦或者性感——一次也沒有過。這些對她們來說都不重要——重要的是，她們要變得充滿想象力、機智、勤懇、強大、聰明而富有魅力。我想這些就是我可以向他們解釋的更寬廣的主題，我想我會盡我所能這么做。

布洛克：你之前提到你努力談及女權主義。女權主義對你來說意味著什么？

斯威夫特：我是說，在我的基本定義里，它意味著你希望男女之間擁有平等的權利和同等的機會。

布洛克：它在你身處的音樂圈是如何體現的？我是說，你是否覺得這對你來說已經不是個問題了？

斯威夫特：這完全是個問題。這個問題每天都會出現，我都會看到這樣那樣的頭條說，“小心吧，伙計，她會寫一首關于你的歌。”與此同時，你知道的，我最好的朋友們，他們有的是男音樂家，有的是男作曲家，他們給自己的女友、前女友寫歌，但是這樣的玩笑卻從來不會開在他們身上。（歌曲《叢林之外》片段）